Tips for new psychology Masters students (with Jordan Turner)

[00:00:04] Bronwyn: Hey, mental workers, you're listening to the Mental Work Podcast, the podcast about the realities of working in mental health for early career psychologists! As always, I'm your host, Bronwyn Milkins, and today we are talking about tips for new psychology masters students.

Starting a psychology masters can feel really overwhelming, confusing, exciting, but also high stakes. So in this episode, we're breaking down practical experience-based tips to help you get through the degree with less stress, fewer missteps, and more self-compassion. I'm really excited for this episode today, a few listeners actually reached out to me to say, "Hey, I am starting my masters this year, like, do you have any tips?"

So I wanted to bring on longtime friend of the podcast, Jordan Turner to join us today. Hi Jordan.

[00:00:47] Jordan: Hi, how are you?

[00:00:48] Bronwyn: Yeah, I'm really good. It is so nice to have you back on the pod.

[00:00:51] Jordan: I'm really happy to be back.

[00:00:53] Bronwyn: Lovely. Could you please remind listeners who you are for people who haven't heard you before?

[00:00:58] Jordan: Yeah, I am an educational and developmental psychologist. I work primarily with neurodivergent folk. I have owned a private practice, I've actually recently wind down and now I'm working and doing assessments for the Department of Education, which is really exciting.

[00:01:16] Bronwyn: Yeah, amazing. And could you just give listeners a bit of background about your master's journey, because you did an Ed Dev Masters right?

[00:01:23] Jordan: Yeah, so I did my Educational and Developmental Masters at the University of Melbourne, in... it started in 2019, I finished in 2020... so right at the beginning of the pandemic, about halfway through we were in lockdown and in Melbourne it was pretty hectic, as most people know. Um, so that was an interesting time.

[00:01:44] Bronwyn: Totally. It's such a unique experience because yeah, you were in Melbourne, and Melbourne got, I think, the worst lockdowns in Australia. I think that was Melbourne.

[00:01:51] Jordan: Think we had the record for the longest lockdowns in the world even, yeah, so it was pretty crazy.

[00:01:58] Bronwyn: That's nuts. Whereas I was in Perth, so I did my masters in Perth at Curin University 2017. So that was the five plus one masters. And then I did my plus one year, which was actually two years, um, like 2018 to 2020. Um, and then I started my post registration master of Clinical Psychology in 2023, and I'm still going with that. So the master's journeys never ends sometimes.

[00:02:25] Jordan: We've got like a, a huge like, breadth of it because you've got the, you've done the professional and now you're doing the clinical and I've got the Ed & Dev, so that's gonna be really interesting to combine the experiences.

[00:02:37] Bronwyn: Yeah, I love the diversity we have even amongst ourselves.

[00:02:40] Jordan: Yeah. Oh, good.

[00:02:42] Bronwyn: Yeah. Um, so today listeners, what we've got is Jordan and I have come up with some tips and we shared our tips before this episode, just so we could get a sense of what we were going with, and we were surprised that a few of our tips overlapped, which is really interesting, came up with them independently, yet they overlap. And we're going to go back and forth between our tips, have a bit of discussion on them, obviously disclaimer, like, you know, these aren't the panacea of ultimate tips or whatever, these are just tips that we've, come up with based on our own lived experiences and things that we found helpful, which we hope you find helpful, right?

[00:03:14] Jordan: Yeah, and I mean, for what it's worth, the fact that we had overlapping tips is probably that, um, other people have similar kind of experiences in their masters as far as like what was helpful for them.

[00:03:27] Bronwyn: I agree, absolutely. So I wanted to start off with Jordan's tip first because I just loved this one. Can you tell us what it is, Jordan?

[00:03:35] Jordan: Yeah, so I guess, um, my preamble to this tip is that, uh, leading up to the master's and your bachelor's and honors, everyone's just really like, um, eager to get the straight A's and things like that, because, because we're all in competition, right? We all, it's very competitive to get into a Master's program, and so we all kind of wanna get to that point.

Once you get into the master's, all the pressure's off, and you can actually genuinely just focus on learning. Um, so that's the time to take time to experiment with your areas of interest and the things you genuinely wanna take into your practice. And, um, so to not worry about not knowing, to really take it as a learning experience and, and, and, don't worry about maximizing grades, 'cause the grades don't really matter anymore. It's really just about like, um, I mean obviously you wanna pass, but, uh, like nobody needs that HD anymore.

Like, I remember, um, when I was in my master's, one of my assessments, I had done a bit of research on like psychodynamic theory when I was in my undergrad, and I was like, to the lecturer, I, I'm thinking of, um, talking about psychodynamic theory and she's like, yeah, you could do that, or you could do something that you're actually like interested in learning more about. And and when I had first kind of gone into it, I was like, oh, you know, I'll do psychodynamic 'cause that's a safe topic and I know I'll probably get a good grade on that. But then I ended up like, um, learning about, oh God, I can't even- motivational interviewing which is what I ended up like writing my report on and, and just like, it was interesting and I, I used those skills that I learned as part of my report, genuinely in in practice later on, so it was helpful that way.

[00:05:19] Bronwyn: I completely agree with you and echo the importance of focusing on learning and not grades because, yeah, it's like in your undergrad, like I have a memory of riding home on the bus and getting a mark back from an assignment and being like, please don't get a credit, please don't get a credit, 'cause I was just, you know, trying to really get into honors and just get the high grades. Um, so I really was gunning for those D's and HD's, but in Masters I deliberately said to myself, look. The grades don't matter now, I just need to actually learn the things, gain the competence.

[00:05:50] Jordan: Yeah, that, that is also the time that you, um, wanna fuck up. Like because you are being held in your master's, nobody expects you in your master's to be the, uh, like best clinician in the world. So that's when you should really have that... you, you have the safety net of experimenting in that space. So that's like when you're doing your placements in a master's program, that's really the safest place that you can experiment with that sort of thing.

[00:06:18] Bronwyn: 100%. And I love how you took the opportunity to learn different things as well. That's such a, a good example. I remember I took an interest in learning about cultural competence because I just noticed it wasn't covered as much in the curriculum as I wanted. And so we had to do an assignment on like diversity in practice and we had to pick a population, and I just picked, like, culturally diverse people because I was like, I just wanna learn, like what do I do, say, somebody needs an interpreter. Um, and so, yeah, I found that really interesting. So, and it just makes it more enjoyable, I feel like being able to explore like your interest areas.

[00:06:55] Jordan: Yeah. And as a side note, it's also, um, I don't know, in, I guess in different master's programs you might have different like, um, flexibilities, but if you can choose placements in areas of interest as well, like, for me, uh, my placements, uh, I had one that was in the Department of Education, I had another one that was in private practice, which of course. I, I loved, ended up pursuing. And then I had a third one that was in a school, so I, I got the, the breadth of like, Ed and Dev, classical Ed and Dev kind of, um, experiences. And that's, that was a great opportunity as well to kind of do a taste tester of, of areas that you'd wanna work in.

[00:07:37] Bronwyn: Yeah, so your tip is related to my first tip, which I've headlined as, be practical, not perfect, and in brackets I said, don't worry about grades. Um, which, which ties in nicely to your one, but maybe I wanted to extend that by saying that a lot of folks who get into Masters, they do have a perfectionism streak again, because they've had to work really hard to get into these courses. The issue with perfectionism is that you can spend more time on assignments than is worth it or is practical, and then you can fall behind on other stuff. So I think when you get to Masters, you have a lot of assignments, I had a lot of assignments, did you have a lot of assignments?

[00:08:16] Jordan: I feel like I probably did, but I don't, I don't recall.

[00:08:20] Bronwyn: Okay.

[00:08:21] Jordan: I definitely had a, a, a thesis that I had to write, which took up a lot of time.

[00:08:26] Bronwyn: Yeah, yep. So there's thesis or a research component. I remember doing so many assignments, um, and yeah, I just couldn't be perfectionist about it. I had to be like, look, I've got a week to do this, I'll do that, I'll do it the best that I can, but I can't just keep on obsessing about these minor details, I just need to do it.

[00:08:44] Jordan: For sure. And like, like you said, like it has a diminishing return if you're like, obsessing over something. Uh, the grade isn't that important in the end, if you pass, um, as long as you're, you've learned something, you know.

[00:08:57] Bronwyn: Yeah, absolutely. And then I could take time to look at the feedback. So I found feedback from my course coordinator and the people who are marking my assignments really valuable. To extend on your point earlier about like, don't be afraid to fuck up or this is the time to do that, it's like the most valuable feedback I got.

I remember quite early on maybe I was doing a formulation and I didn't do it quite right. And then my course coordinator was like, this is a functional formulation that you've done, and I wanted the four P's, and I was like, oh, that's really valuable to know. Um, so try something out. Even if you try and do it perfect, you might not get it right and then you just get the feedback.

[00:09:32] Jordan: Um, that jogs my memory of an incident where I think I was in my first placement and I made a mistake. I don't even remember what the mistake was, but, um, I went to my supervisor like really upset about the mistake, and she's like, well, I can guarantee you're not gonna make that mistake again.

[00:09:50] Bronwyn: Yeah.

[00:09:50] Jordan: Because you learn from your mistakes, right? That's, that's the most potent way to learn, is by making a mistake and not doing it again.

[00:09:58] Bronwyn: Yes. Yes, definitely. I think that's all I had to say about the perfectionism. Oh, the only other thing is that the flip side of perfectionism is procrastination. Um, so if you know that's you and that you are a person who avoids doing things because of shame, embarrassment, um, you can also seek external help or work with yourself on that and be like, look, this just has to be done. Um, I'm gonna dedicate 10 minutes to doing this today, um, and do the next step.

[00:10:26] Jordan: Awesome. I love that. I think that's so true, and as a, struggling perfectionist to myself, I, I really relate to that.

[00:10:32] Bronwyn: Yeah. Yeah. Let's go to your tip number two.

[00:10:37] Jordan: Uh, this is a more, um, practical tip. It's, um, if possible don't work. And I know it's a privilege to say not to work because a lot of us do have to work, um, and in fact, I had to work during mine, uh, my, uh, masters. But if you're going to, if you can get a paid placement, try.... that, that's pretty good because, uh, you have to do at least, like, I think it's like it's the equivalent of a part-time job while you're doing placements.

Um, or you could do what I did, which is work as a research assistant, which is pretty big bang for your buck. Um, and I worked like one day a week and that was pretty good. So because, um, the actual placement is like the equivalent of a part-time job, plus you're doing, you know, the schoolwork. It's just a lot.

[00:11:22] Bronwyn: totally resonate with that. During my five plus one masters, I didn't work, but I was on Centrelink, but money was really skint. It's not like Centrelink is living it up sort of thing. Um, but yeah, if you can get Centrelink, that's good too. And I know there's some master's courses that are eligible for that. Um, and then during my current master of clinical psychology, I've had to work the whole way through, like, you know, trying to buy a house and stuff and save up, um, but yeah, I guess if you don't have to, then yeah, if you're in that position, yeah, it's 'cause you're just doing so much.

[00:11:57] Jordan: Yeah, but also recognizing that not, uh, not a lot of people can choose not to work. There's a couple of ways you can get around it, but yeah, it's, it's a, it's a tricky one because it is, it's a really intense course, I feel like you could do it part-time and maybe that's more manageable if you had to. I was lucky, I had, uh, a spouse, yeah, spouse at the time, um, who was able to, to support me, but, yeah.

[00:12:20] Bronwyn: Yeah, the research assistant is a good idea. Um, and how did you get that, just outta curiosity, that job?

[00:12:26] Jordan: That's gonna link it to my next tip. It's just, um, I actually, my, one of my lecturers was like, hey, is I'm looking for a research assistant, is anyone interested? And I was like, yes, I'll do it. Um, and uh, that's basically how I got the gig. So yeah, making yourself available to everything.

[00:12:46] Bronwyn: It's a good idea and if anybody is looking for research assistant jobs, I know that if you email like the admin of your psychology school and be like, hey, I am looking for research assistant work, there are usually researchers or academics who are looking for research assistants. So they can put you in touch or they can put out an email to the school or something. Um, 'cause they might not advertise to Master's students, but they might advertise around their colleagues. So it's, yeah, good to put a foot in the door and raise your hand if you're interested in research assistant work.

[00:13:14] Jordan: I was in the psych faculty or the Ed and Dev Psych education faculty technically, um, and I was still doing research in an area that's relevant to me. Actually helped a little bit with my thesis 'cause it got me into a bit of practice 'cause I was writing, uh, like research reports for, yeah, so it worked out really well. Um, it's a good, it's a good gig to get if you can grab it.

[00:13:37] Bronwyn: Okay. So my next tip was recognize when you need help and get it early. The reason why I say this is because I think there's a lot of folk who start their master's program and they have the imposter syndrome, and they're like, anybody at any time is gonna find out that I'm not meant to be here, and I got here by accident and I fooled everybody in the interview. Um, and as a result, if they have a learning difference like dyslexia or dysgraphia, um, or they have, um, caring responsibilities. They don't bring it up because they're like, oh, I'm afraid of looking weak, or this is gonna be the nail in the coffin and they're gonna kick me out the course.

My suggestion is have a think about that with yourself and instead, ask for help when you need it because you're actually a student. They put you into the program because you are competent and they know that you can do it. and if you have a learning difference or some other thing that requires help, if you get help early, it puts the strategies in place that you can succeed.

[00:14:32] Jordan: I also wanna add to that is that a lot of universities these days have like for learning differences, like support built into the school so that you can like say, I, you know, I have ADHD or I'm autistic, and that helps. There's resources at universities, most universities, um, for people with neurodivergence, um, and who need extra support, um, are there to advocate for you.

And just as a hot tip an Ed and Dev psych usually ends up writing a report to support that. So if you, if you're linked in with somebody, and you need like extra- I've written a bunch of reports for like uni students, saying this is their neuro- their flavor of neurodivergence, and this is how it impacts them, and can they get this accommodation. So universities generally have that support in place.

[00:15:23] Bronwyn: Do you know something I learned a few weeks ago, only actually, and maybe you already know this, but it was a shock to me, but you don't actually need a formal diagnosis to get support. So if you're like, I think I'm neurodivergent, um, what is it under, it's like some. Legal framework. It's like an education support framework, but there's literally a line in it which says like, if you think you have neurodivergence or a disability, you do not need a formal diagnosis to access a learning support plan.

[00:15:47] Jordan: I did not know that. That's actually, that's really handy to know, 'cause the amount of people, yeah, you don't, to get diagnosed is a privilege sometimes. And-

[00:15:55] Bronwyn: Yeah, I'll link it in the show notes, the document, 'cause I can't, I like, yeah, I'm not quoting it right, but I was like, oh, okay, great.

[00:16:03] Jordan: Yeah. Yeah. So it's, it's, if you need help, ask for it. That's the takeaway, isn't it? Because you should be able to get it, like know your rights if you have additional needs or, or need more support or like an adjustment, they should accommodate you.

[00:16:17] Bronwyn: Yeah, absolutely. And we need, like, from my perspective, I'm always like, look, we need more diversity. And you know, I've had psychs on the podcast who are, for example, vision impaired. And it's like, you would never be like, oh, like they're weak because they're vision impaired. It's like, that's clearly ridiculous. It's like, no, we need diversity and we need to support and accommodate them so that they can do well in this course.

[00:16:38] Jordan: Yeah, lived experience of all types, you know, like disability, you know, cultural difference, yeah, all of that. And we need more and more diversity within our profession than ever.

[00:16:51] Bronwyn: Let's flip it back to you with your next tip.

[00:16:54] Jordan: Just to bounce off of your last tip though, before we get into this one, is that when you need help, like on placement, mention it to your supervisor. If you're struggling on placement, um, you should be telling your supervisor, say more rather than less, because if you say, if you kind of think, oh God, I better not tell them, so they don't know that I'm. Like incompetent or whatever... um, no, you are allowed to be incompetent right now, that's entirely the point. You don't have the skills, you are learning the skills right now, you should be telling your supervisor if you fucked up or if you need made a mistake, um, they're there to support you.

You know, it actually takes like, um, just learning, 'cause I did the supervision training, uh, last year, a lot for someone to be like, you know what, uh, you don't get to be a psychologist anymore. So better to tell them than not tell them, and then like quietly drown and obsessed and ruminate and have a bad time. I, I can tell you countless times when I was doing my placements where I was like going to the supervisor and like, like crying and being like, I fucked everything up, I've, I've ruined it, I'm so sorry. And she's been like, dude, that's just, that's what you, you know, that's part of it. You gotta, you gotta like do it, you know, that's, you're going to fuck up, that's part of it.

[00:18:12] Bronwyn: Yeah. I couldn't agree more. Thank you for sharing that.

[00:18:15] Jordan: Yeah. Reach out if you, if you've made a mistake because they're there to support you. And if your supervisor is not there to support you, know your avenues to, to like tell somebody about that because they, they're there to support you.

[00:18:29] Bronwyn: Yeah, absolutely. I'm so glad. Yeah, so I did the supervisor training last year as well, and it was so valuable to learn, um, that it's like, yeah, supervisors shouldn't be giving you shaming responses and stuff. It's like, we're here to help.

[00:18:41] Jordan: For sure. If you're a supervisor and you're shaming kids or sorry, kids, uh, students, we're not all kids anymore. Um, if you're shaming kids, I said it again, students. Then what are you even doing? Like get outta here. You're a bad teacher

[00:18:57] Bronwyn: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we're students. It's like, yeah, you're there to learn and, and students make mistakes. That's how we learn.

[00:19:04] Jordan: Exactly. So my next point was, um, related to networking, which is kind of like a, a say yes to everything. Like within reason, like, um, I, I brought this tip up to my husband as like a, I was like pitching it and he was like, well, you don't wanna be like the person that's like taking on the entire group project. But that's not what I mean. I mean, like, um, make yourself visible, like be the Hermione Granger in your class, raising your hand and, and giving input.

For example, one of the things I did was I was on the student advisory committee and, um, started with a couple of other students, like a peer networking group after the fact, and we kind of, it's still going now, it's actually really lovely. Shout out to the, the group because they're probably listening. But yeah, like make friends, talk to your, your, um, fellow students, because more than likely you are going to be working with them later or consulting with them later.

And like I've had like bizarrely, like people from my honors and even my undergrad who are, who I've talked to, like, and who are psychs now, where like, oh, hey, I remember you. If you go into private practice, that's actually the main way that I was getting clients in private practice was knowing other psychs and talking to other psychs and just being visible and making friends and chatting because, yeah, like it's, it's critical, it's important in our career, is to know others.

[00:20:27] Bronwyn: This overlaps with my tip, and I had it as maintain professional relationships, but I couldn't agree more with everything that you've said. Essentially when you get into Masters, your peers are now your colleagues, they're gonna be your future colleagues. I cannot tell you, listeners, how many times I've run into people from my master's courses, like even as recently as a few days ago, and somebody would be like, do you know so and so? And I'm like, yeah, they're in my master's course and I see them all the time. They're everywhere, um, you're gonna be working with them, you're gonna be seeing them.

Um, so I would say be nice, like obviously like, yeah, don't be a jerk. Be kind, uh, be generous with your time. Obviously take care of yourself. I completely agree with the Hermione Granger thing, um, purely for the reason because you never know where things are gonna take you. My wildest thing that I've said yes to and it's led me to somewhere is I originally got on a committee for a professional association, and then somebody in that committee was like, I'm interviewing people for a TV show, I do casual contract work for a media production, like do you want to interview people as like pre-safety checks for this TV show? And I was like, yeah, that sounds awesome. Um, so I did that for like two TV shows that were aired on SBS and it was super interesting and super fun.

[00:21:45] Jordan: Oh my God. That's, isn't it crazy? So, so many things like just from saying yes. One of the things that I said yes to was your call out for the very first podcast You were saying- yeah, that was like, oh, that sounds great, I'm gonna sign up for that. So say yes to things. It's put yourself out there, 'cause that's the way that you build relationships.

And if you're like, in private practice, it's been super helpful for me. Um, and it's, honestly, it's also like great, for like the tough times. Like, like I've definitely cried on Bron's shoulder off, off the air for things that I'm going through. It's, and you know, like this is a, we all lean on each other. It's so helpful and, the masters is like the best opportunity to be, like meeting people who are at the same stage of their career as you as well, which is, you know, it's a great, um, time to, cry on people's shoulders and be like, oh, I, I feel like an imposter too. Of course we all do, even now, you know.

[00:22:41] Bronwyn: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:22:44] Jordan: Years down the track will probably still feel like imposters

[00:22:47] Bronwyn: Yeah. Unfortunately, I hear it doesn't go away that much.

[00:22:50] Jordan: I think it's, I think it's in the schema, like the makeup of a, of a psyche. Just you're constantly like wondering if you're worthy.

[00:22:59] Bronwyn: Yeah. Absolutely. I love this tip, yeah, be nice. Oh, I wanted to add to it that, um, that you know, you're not gonna get along with everybody. Sometimes there are gonna be, Yeah, people you just don't get along with. Um, but even to those folk, I would say either just still be friendly, don't, don't be jerks back, because... yeah, I guess it's just a pro human tip, right?

[00:23:20] Jordan: Yeah, I think it, it's generali generalizable to, to most things. Like you don't, just don't be an asshole, like...

[00:23:26] Bronwyn: Yeah,

I'm like trying to spin the tip. But that's pretty much what it comes down to.

[00:23:32] Jordan: Yeah, there's definitely gonna be situations where, people butt heads and, yeah, you hear kind of stories of, of, um, psychs that, um, don't get along and that can be like problematic. But I, I guess, yeah, the, the takeaway of that is you try and be as diplomatic as possible because you never know, who knows?

This is like a small field, you know? Everyone kind of knows everyone, and I don't know, like in Ed and Dev in particular is really, really tiny.

[00:23:59] Bronwyn: Yeah. Absolutely. Are we ready to move on to the next tip? I had one more. I guess it's a kind of boring, but I thought it was important. So mine is read your unit guides and ask questions before you act. The reason why I suggest this boring but important step is because there are a lot of rules in being a psychologist that are not intuitive and ways of practicing that, yet you won't know unless you read it or somebody happens to tell you.

So one of these examples is, let's say you wanna work as a psychologist outside of your master's. You cannot be a contractor, you, you can't do that, it's against the AHPRA rules. Um, but you might not know that, so you need to ask people if you're thinking of doing something before you act, because if you were to do that, that would be bad. You would get in trouble for that.

So read your unit guidelines, read your course guides, ask questions if you don't understand something. The terminology can be hard to understand. Sometimes I think as a neurodivergent person myself, sometimes I find particular phrasing difficult to understand, and I think I've worked out that I interpret things in different ways to other people at times. So like if somebody's writing something, it made sense to them, but then I find it hard to understand. Um, so yeah, this, this is something that I do. I ask questions and I'm like, I think I understand it, but I'm not quite sure. Does that resonate with you?

[00:25:18] Jordan: Yeah, I definitely feel that from like an autism perspective, autistic perspective, I feel that like I need more specificity than...

[00:25:29] Bronwyn: Me too.

[00:25:30] Jordan: ...than most people. And so I'm always the one who's like dissecting the wording more than I should. And people assume that you kind of know what they mean generally, but then it's like, oh no, that wasn't correct. Especially like at things like competencies and stuff like that. It was like, am I really following the competency accurately? And then it's like I've gotten way into the weeds and it's not that deep.

[00:25:53] Bronwyn: I can give an example. Something that just came to mind was, for example, with my first placement, there was a university requirement that you upload your client notes to their secure like software. And, but then I had a placement and they also required to upload notes to their secure software. And I thought I was doing the right thing by, um, not uploading notes to the placement software because then I would upload them to the university software, turns out I needed to do both.

[00:26:24] Jordan: Oh gosh.

[00:26:25] Bronwyn: But yeah, I didn't know that. And then I got in trouble, um, so it's just like, like you need to ask and clarify sometimes for some things.

[00:26:32] Jordan: Yeah. Oh, I think that that kind of reminds me of another hot tip that I, um, that, um, theoretically like is just good practice is always keep track of your placement stuff on the day. Do not try and remember it after the fact.

[00:26:47] Bronwyn: Oh my God. Such a good tip.

[00:26:50] Jordan: If you... You will not remember it. There's just so, so much and, and keeping track of literally every five minute conversation you have with your supervisor is also super helpful. Um, I did my placement during the pandemic, which meant that it was extremely hard to have access to, like hours during our place-, so it was literally like any like 15 minute increment of anything, log it because you need those hours to, to get registered.

[00:27:21] Bronwyn: Definitely, I've seen so many people crying on Facebook, um, through their text, um, because they're like, I haven't done my logbooks for three weeks. I can't remember anything. I dunno what to write. And yeah, for me, I kept my log books updated like straight away, 'cause yeah, I don't have good memory, so I was like, I'm just gonna do it. `But I'm so glad I did that.

[00:27:40] Jordan: I reckon maybe like a hot tip is block out 15 minutes, 20 minutes at the end of every, um, practicum day where you're just, um, writing what you did that day. Oh God, I, I'm having like flashbacks now that it was like, so... the master's program, the amount of logging you need is way more intense than any other aspect of your career, so it gets better, hot tip.

[00:28:02] Bronwyn: Yeah.

[00:28:03] Jordan: Un- unless you do like registrar program, which is similarly intense. Less so, but still like, like you literally, like I remember in my master's program blogging every single 15 minute increment for my placement.

[00:28:17] Bronwyn: But yeah, you gotta gotta log those tasks to show the competencies and get the hours.

[00:28:22] Jordan: Do it. And also like, um, I was a bit of a funny one 'cause I was annoying. I used to like, go and knock on my supervisory store and be like, hey, just so you, I just wanna pick your brain about this. And then it would be like the 15 minute conversation gets logged. And yeah, like I said, I was like a Hermione Granger always asking questions and what, what does this mean? And oh, what do you make of this, you know?

[00:28:46] Bronwyn: No, it's good, it's good. Okay, we could, we could probably give more tips forever, but let's, um, let's end with something hopeful. Do you have any words of wisdom to the incoming masters students?

[00:28:59] Jordan: I feel like masters is very intense and scary, and you definitely will be feeling like you're flying by the seat of your pants. That's normal. Don't feel like you're a failure because you have no idea what you're doing because nobody does. It's by design and you're well supported and, um, we all love you. You will get through it.

We're a wonderful, caring profession, and I, I, I'm really excited to see people coming in and, you know, I know I've had like clients and stuff who are saying, oh, they're gonna be a psychologist down the track, and I, I, I trust that they're gonna be amazing psychologists because they, they have the lived experience.

 So you will be okay. Just rely on your supports and, and it's a hell of a ride, but it's a beautiful thing 'cause it's, it's not just a, you know, a profession, it's also kind of a, a vocation and it's a, a calling even, um, you grow with the job. I hope that's like inspiring enough for you guys.

[00:29:59] Bronwyn: That was so inspiring as you were talking. I'm like, wow, Jordan's so smart, man, like...

[00:30:03] Jordan: I try to be.

[00:30:05] Bronwyn: Yeah. That was so wise.

[00:30:07] Jordan: Feel like an imposter though, just so you guys know. Everybody feels that way.

[00:30:12] Bronwyn: Um, uh, yeah, I would say I'm, I feel like I'm gonna be much less eloquent than you, but I'm just gonna say, go get it. Like you guys can do it. Yeah, I believe in you. Yeah, um, I'm really, I'm really excited for the Master's students as well. I think it's such a great opportunity for learning and I think that's a huge quality of Master's students, of people who come into psychology. We are curious and we love to learn. Those are our two collective traits, um, as well as the self-sacrificing and the unrelenting standards. But, you know, yeah. The flip side, flip side is we love learning, we love being curious. There's so much to learn in Masters, I remember feeling like my head was going to explode and just I could not take in any more information.

But yeah, I'm really glad that I did my masters. Um, it was such a great opportunity for learning and growth. Um, and it's such a privilege to be able to undertake this course. Not everybody gets the opportunity. Um, but yeah, I'd say take care of yourself. You are so important, in psychology we are the tool, like, like without us, we can't do therapy, we can't do assessments, we can't do vocational work, so you need to look after yourself. Um, but yeah, take it easy, have a good time.

[00:31:18] Jordan: I feel like, yeah, looking after yourself is number one priority because you can't pour from an empty cup.

[00:31:23] Bronwyn: Mm-hmm, definitely.

[00:31:25] Jordan: Which we all know and you all, we all kind of learn as well the hard way.

[00:31:29] Bronwyn: Well, okay. I think we're coming to an end. If listeners wanna learn more about you or get touched, Jordan, where can they find you?

[00:31:36] Jordan: Um, I am on LinkedIn. My name is Jordan Turner, you might see me there. My website's actually down at the moment, but I probably should bring that up. Um, you can also email me, jordanturnerpsych@gmail.com, if you had any questions. Um, but that's on my LinkedIn as well, I think.

[00:31:52] Bronwyn: I'll pop the link in the show notes.

And listeners, if you found this episode helpful, please do share it with somebody who's starting a master's course, anybody who you think might benefit. Do leave a rating and review for the podcast. It helps the episodes get into more people's ears.

And that's a wrap. Thanks for listening to Mental Work. I'm Bronwyn Milkins. Catch you next time. Bye.